Back in winter, I launched a dare stating that God, The Ever-Living, is finite, cannot be infinite. Limitless, yes. But infinite, no.
Before allowing Ruddy Adam to deploy, here’s a ten minutes long video about the universe, its center and whether an infinite may have a center.
Ruddy Adam, aka Liza, writes.
Comment and Request Regarding Whether God is Finite or Infinite
“Hey, sweet Liza. Thank you for the presentation re whether our God is finite or infinite. Thanks to Don for broaching the subject, though it may well be unknowable at this time.
I would like to know how you would make or at least start an argument from the meaning of two of the Lord’s names: Al Roi, “The All-Seeing One”; and Al Shaddai, “The All-Powerful One.” Because I would like to make such an argument. Thank you in advance.
Col. S., Ret. US Air Force”
Answer: I would start by making a couple of comments, in regard to those names.
If one is All-Powerful, then it seems one can do whatever one wants to do, that is, create any type of creation imaginable.
If one is All-Seeing, then it seems one would also be all-knowing and have understanding of all things, and that would include an infinite expanse of knowledge.
For the All-Powerful I would use Yohn’s Scriptures in the first of his Book, Yohn 1.3 which read:
3. All things came into existence through Him! And apart from Him not one single thing ever came into existence that did indeed come into existence.
And I would use Paul’s in Hebrews 11.3, which read:
3. By faith we understand the ages to have been created by Divine Utterance, with the result that out of nothing the things which we now see came into existence.
For the All-Seeing I would also use Paul’s in Hebrews 4.12-13, which reads:
Hebrews 4.12-13: The Power of the Logos
12. For the Logos Who comes from the Ever-Living lives, and is effective, and is sharper than any two-edged sword. Indeed, It pierces as deep as being able to make a separation between both soul and spirit, and between both joints and marrow, and is able to discern both the thoughts and intentions in the heart.
13. And no creature exists unrevealed before Him. Indeed, all things are naked and exposed to His eyes, the One to Whom we must give account to.
Being All-Powerful means that all-powerful one could create an infinite number of universes—in fact, as many as he wanted to create. Each one may have different physical laws (physics) from what the one we currently know has. No reason to lock in someone who is all-powerful to one set of physical laws. Of course, these would be linear laws.
Now, Col., to anticipate how an opponent may attempt to challenge your position, you would thereafter have to make some assumptions. Which would be quite common in this type of argument, but they would have to follow your previous reasoning regarding the All-Powerful and All-Seeing.
One anticipatory point would be that if one is all-powerful, then there is no reason to lock that one into linear laws. He could just as easily create non-linear universes—and an infinite number of those. That would surely make that Being infinite.
The ability to create non-linear universes would be an ability past any known form of arithmetic, geometry, math, or physics. Which would certainly show that that All-Powerful One had infinite powers.
That ought to get you going. Thank you for the comment, and the question. If you decide to carry it out, let us know how it goes.
Your Sweet Darlin’ Liza
Sweet Liza, Colonel,
There are limitless finites and limited infinites.
However, often in colloquial speech, the term infinite is equated with the term limitless. A misnomer.
This topic addresses this kind of confusion and its negative effects on properly understanding Eternity – or any other realities relying on discrete, real numbers and opposed to realities apparent from the illusion of continuum and irrational numbers.
In calculus, there are quite some interesting applications of limits on this topic of finite v. infinite.
Real numbers are always finite, so we may extrapolate that a reality construct that is accepted within Eternity has to be finite. Or better said: as many reality constructs one desires to bring up to Eternity, any of them has to be finite. Even if a quadrillion, or a googol – number equivalent to ten raised to the power of a hundred (10^100), yes the two Google founding guys took the name from ‘googol’ – is a finite number, no matter how huge.
The rest, for us topics in theology and philosophy and psychology, is mainly semantics – as our minds attribute different meanings to the word ‘infinite’ and consequently to its opposite ‘finite’ according to habits of speech. Another misnomer is the term antimatter. There is no such thing as anti-matter. The positrons exist, like electrons, and belong to mirror-matter: same matter with the total charge in reverse. Sounds cooler and makes more sense.
In what I wished to convey when saying that God is ‘finite’ is the absence of temptation, the non-existence of seduction, the non-zero [zero implies infinite as in continuum – see relativistic geometry v. Euclidean one], the non-existence of nothing – because the ‘nothing’ leads our minds over to a temptation of the infinite, of the non-finite, non-definite, non-precise, non-discrete, non-clear thoughts, things or deeds.
We cannot know God otherwise but through Yasu Khrist.
He is our ONLY way to God, to the Ever-Living.
Plus He tells us that He IS the Ever-Living.
What he does is according to His will, His volition as you said, and this has no limits – where having no limits does not equal being infinite, or better said wanting to be infinite. Because infinite one can be not. One can only be what he is: definite.
Lucifer wants to be infinite. Why? Because he is a zero. No measure in there.
The infinite implies tension and chagrin. There cannot be harmony within a constant chasing for the infinite.
This the semantics I wished to convey. There are many others, of course, which I didn’t imply.
The statement in quantum mechanics, formulated by Werner Heisenberg, that it is impossible to measure two properties of a quantum object, such as its position and momentum (or energy and time), simultaneously with infinite precision.
Why is our universe infinitely broken, centerless, relativistic?
Because it still holds a minuscule ‘part’ of non-existence. A zero.
In existence (as in eternity) there is no zero. And no negation.
As about our standard binary logic: yes/no or true/false – that we proudly use in our non-quantum computing machines, such logic is absent from Eternity. Consider DNA – a code with a non-binary logic.
What ‘is-not’ may belong to our fallen impressions but seems not to belong to the ‘All-‘ prefixing the powers of God. A hallucination shouldn’t be considered as part of ‘All’ only because our minds follow a binary logic. His Mind is not subject to our logic.
God can create as many universes as He wants. In fact, He even delegates parts of this feature to us because our minds can imagine as many worlds as we wish to. The more endowed ones may draw mathematical equations and descriptive functions. The more faithful ones can even walk through alternate realities. None of us would enjoy falling into an infinite pit or ascending up an infinite chimney. At one point you get tired. It’s called routine and it’s an ordinary boring task, absolutely unexceptional. If we don’t find this kind of infinite tasty, why would God?
I think that man has an obsession with infinity, infinities, never-endings, with the indeterminate as Heisenberg would say, with the neverness and/or nothingness. This is understandable since Lucifer inserted his line of code in mankind’s minds – to begin with.
Stupid Homer Simpsonian example: I’ve got an infinite influx of beer. What shall I do? Drink it all. No question. D’oh.
Think, Homer, what would Jesus do?
Second Simpsonian conundrum: I’ve got a new on-demand TV box. Unlike the classic television channels, this box offers me a limitless database of movies, shows, music, you name it. Youtube and beyond. I can select to watch whatever I want whenever I wish. Shall I think in ‘infinite’ terms?, allowing myself this addiction? Because the concept of infinite sounds like an addiction. Or shall I pick a movie after searching for (say) three pages? (would three pages sound enough?), or just click on a whim, see what gives and move ahead to another day.
If Yasu Khrist can do whatever He wants, whenever, wherever, etc. why would He waste His Almightiness on neverness and nothingness?, on zeroes?
No matter how many zeroes you count, the end result is zero. An infinite sum of zeroes returns zero. It is the ones that count. And God is One. Precise. Definite.
Definite is the opposite of infinite.
Why this obsession with the infinite?, with the never ending?
Why not happy endings? As in Consequential Edens.